Newbie Question

Discuss game box design and sharing.

Moderators: Ichibrothers, Cambronne

Post Reply
Yallweh
Posts: 4
Joined: 02 Sep 2022, 18:31

Newbie Question

Post by Yallweh »

I'm trying to make my first ZT box. I have a mostly finished version done and just want to add the charts and army displays into the module. The main countersheet(with the unit counters and markers) shows up fine, but the "countersheet"/tab that I tried to add for the charts does not appear when I load the module. I haven't tried adding the army displays yet, since I can't get the tracks/charts to work. I used the ZTB from "The Creature That Ate Sheboygan" as the starting point for this module. Posting the XML below-can anyone spot any errors? I did double-check and confirmed that the JPEG referenced by the "Tracks" object is part of the ZTB archive, so that's not the issue, I figure it must be an issue with my XML.

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="windows-1252" ?>
<game-box version="1.0"
name="Un Empire En Flammes"
description="Test"
copyright="Vae Victis"
startup-scenario="main_game.zts">

<dice-hand type="D6">
<dice count="1" color="ffffff" pips="000000" />
</dice-hand>

<dice-hand type="D6">
<dice count="2" color="ffffff" pips="000000" />
</dice-hand>

<map name="Board" image-file="eef_map_full.jpg" resolution="150 dpi" />



<counter-sheet name="Counters"
front-image-file="eef_front.png" front-resolution="300 dpi"
back-image-file="eef_back.png" back-resolution="300 dpi">

<counter-section rows="3" columns="9"
front-left="0" front-top="0" front-right="1596" front-bottom="532"
back-left="0" back-top="0" back-right="1596" back-bottom="532" />

<counter-section rows="3" columns="9"
front-left="0" front-top="595" front-right="1596" front-bottom="1127"
back-left="0" back-top="595" back-right="1596" back-bottom="1127" />

<counter-section rows="3" columns="9"
front-left="0" front-top="1188" front-right="1596" front-bottom="1715"
back-left="0" back-top="1188" back-right="1596" back-bottom="1715" />

<counter-section rows="3" columns="9"
front-left="0" front-top="1779" front-right="1596" front-bottom="2306"
back-left="0" back-top="1779" back-right="1596" back-bottom="2306" />

</counter-sheet>




<counter-sheet name="Tracks"
front-image-file="1631_Tracks.jpg" front-resolution="300 dpi">
<card-section face-left="0" face-top="0" face-right="2481" face-bottom="3508" supply="2" />
</counter-sheet>


</game-box>
User avatar
Bill Barrett
231
Posts: 351
Joined: 25 May 2008, 13:25

Re: Newbie Question

Post by Bill Barrett »

You need to post your scenario (.ztg) file...

Regards, Bill
Yallweh
Posts: 4
Joined: 02 Sep 2022, 18:31

Re: Newbie Question

Post by Yallweh »

Here's a Google Drive link, the file is probably too big to post directly.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing
PetersonR
Posts: 26
Joined: 27 May 2022, 02:25

Re: Newbie Question

Post by PetersonR »

Hi Yallweh, I produced "CreatureAteSheboygan," and am honored you used this as your first example :) This is a simple fix and instructive to new ZT Designers! Your question was also a problem of mine when first learning ZTB design. Thank you for the question.

After downloading your ZTB and unzipping (by changing the file from "*.ZTB" to "*ZIP"). I reviewed your file. And ZTBill is correct! But before I give the answer; please understand the following:

1 ) This is NOT a XML problem: Within ZT programming, there is a HAND-OFF issue between the two ZTB XML assets (IE game-box.XML & Setup.ZTS). The primary flow is "game-box.XML TO Setup.ZTS ! BOTH MUST be in agreement (just like your counters & map but not chart). And as ZTBill insinuated this is an error of 'hand-off' not of XML!

2) The TAB in any final ZTB, is named by the *.ZTS. Keep this mind for any future ZTB design!

3) Sometimes it is best while designing a game, that you use the *.ZTG but DO NOT FORGET to change the finalized game using a *.ZTS. The 'hand-off' requires this action for final completion!

I recognize that this can be somewhat confusing. Should you have further questions, ZT Members are here to help! Please post any further questions here on ZT Forums! But, I hope this helps your endeavor :D :D

And don't forget to request an upload to ZT2 Files. As a VV design, this should be OK - - See Publisher Corner - VV . . .


Regards, R. Peterson

PS Find this link to my suggested ZTB fix: https://www.mediafire.com/file/besvuczn ... e.ztb/file
User avatar
Bill Barrett
231
Posts: 351
Joined: 25 May 2008, 13:25

Re: Newbie Question

Post by Bill Barrett »

Yes, as I suspected you had missed out one line in your .zts file:

<layout board="Tracks" />

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="Windows-1252"?>
<game
game-box="Un Empire En Flammes"
scenario-name="Standard"
scenario-description="Main Game"
scenario-copyright="VaeVictis">
<layout board="Board" />
<layout board="Counters" />
<layout board="Tracks" />
</game>

Regards, Bill
Yallweh
Posts: 4
Joined: 02 Sep 2022, 18:31

Re: Newbie Question

Post by Yallweh »

Thanks, that got it working. I am coming at this from the POV of a VASSAL module designer, where the scenario file is just a normal save file, it had not occurred to me to make sure that everything aligned between the two.

One question about approach to charts and such. The Sheboygan module has them as cards. I am used to(in VASSAL) having a chart or track be a "map", which also seems to work in ZunTzu. I don't see much difference in functionality either way, in ZT, other than the ability to set supply to > 1 if you set the chart up as a card. Just wondering what people's thoughts are on the best way to do this.
User avatar
Bill Barrett
231
Posts: 351
Joined: 25 May 2008, 13:25

Re: Newbie Question

Post by Bill Barrett »

Well, with ZT you can have maps, counters/cards, and terrains.

With your particular game it would probably be best to either have your track defined as a terrain (to enable you to place and fix it next to the map on your main "Board" tab) or as a map, to keep it fixed and separate on its own tab.

Charts defined as "cards" only really make sense if you want to be able to move them around the screen (CRTs,TRCs etc.) - Turn, Supply, VP, etc. "tracks" should be fixed and immovable.

Regards, Bill
PetersonR
Posts: 26
Joined: 27 May 2022, 02:25

Re: Newbie Question

Post by PetersonR »

Hi Yallweh!

Like the 'hand-off between Gamembox vs setup,' I also had an even more minor confusion about the 'supply-method' vs Map method!

ZT Bill is (as always) correct. However, your use of the term CARD vs CHART is incorrect. Recognize this is a minor infraction, but these terms are important in ZT design! Here are some options:

1st: Make as a map (Board). This will force the players to goto the Tab! Therefore a 'static' Tab. IMO, not so bad for small games but not optimal for larger games.

2nd: Make as a countersheet with extra supply (Sheybogan's method). This will allow the players to decide if they wish to use EITHER the TAB method or be able to move the Countersheet (Chart) to the Map board and play with this option. I tend to design with this option: Give the players more options.

3rd: One can deign as a 'Card' - but this is the worst idea! Because In ZT design,a CARD has different attributes which can make placements of counters not work. In fact, when placing a counter on a Card, it will always goto the upper left of any card!
So think this, a CHART is different from a CARD (like Ace of hearts).

Ultimately, it is your choice for 1&2. And for smaller games, like 'Sheybogan,' a static-map vs countersheet is really a choice of any designer! ZT Bill is correct with his assessment!

But for me, I tend to use the countersheet method with supply=2 (see Sheybogan). Perhaps this gives players more options (?). Any counter placed on this chart will work for the purpose of the game. Whether on the TAB or moved to the play-area.

To test his intermediate example (of ZT Design): see 'Sheybogan' and place counters on the Chart (whether in a TAB or Board). Also see Jerome's exemplar ZTB named 'Poker' [ Poker v2 ] . . . I think you see the difference between CARD and CHART!

Hey, ZT Folks, this is an intermediate design question - sorry for the lengthy explanation! Just play around with the ZTBs suggested. ZT is really that easy!


Regards, RPetereson

PS For those interested, please don't forget that to see all ZTB assets; just change the *.ZTB to *.ZIP - - ZT is easy!
Yallweh
Posts: 4
Joined: 02 Sep 2022, 18:31

Re: Newbie Question

Post by Yallweh »

Thanks. Re: card vs. chart vs. countersheet, the XML for the Sheboygan module looks like this:

<counter-sheet name="CRT"
front-image-file="CSChart.jpg" front-resolution="300 dpi">
<card-section face-left="0" face-top="0" face-right="2550" face-bottom="3300" supply="2" />
</counter-sheet>

Which is why I referred to that use, apparently erroneously, as a "card". I was using "chart" generically and not from the POV of ZT design, where it does not appear to have a special meaning or type. The question was centered on how best to implement the real-world object called a "chart" in ZT. I have experimented with what you are calling the "countersheet" approach and the terrain approach and the functionality seems similar. I'll probably go with terrain since that is locked in place by default.
PetersonR
Posts: 26
Joined: 27 May 2022, 02:25

Re: Newbie Question

Post by PetersonR »

No: Thank-you! Sir, you have asked questions which are excellent!

Design as you desire: we appreciate your questions AND decisions for our play ability 8)

When your done, can you upload your final design for all to see? You have mused/forced me to do more! At this point, it seems your ZTB is ready :wink:

I promise more ZTBs from my own hand; you have enthused me . . .

Thanks, RPeterson
PetersonR
Posts: 26
Joined: 27 May 2022, 02:25

Re: Newbie Question

Post by PetersonR »

Hi Yallweh,

I appreciate your use of my "Creature that Ate Sheboygan," I did recently notice that Jerome's original design: "003 - Paris vaut bien une Messe" has been highlighted on ZT's Library :idea:

For any future 'Newbie' ZT designers, take a look . . . This game was used to explain HOW to create a ZTB - - see https://zuntzu.com/create_gamebox.htm

Very cool to highlight such a seminal design on ZT Files :!:
Post Reply